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Han Solo
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МнениеПуснато на: Пет 17 Сеп 2004, 17:02    Заглавие:  

Albireo написа:
А относно чий пилоти са по-добри. ................ ..................Във всеки случай пакистанците са се справили великолепно тогава /като се има предвид машините им/ ...

Ще ми бъде много интересно да почета защото преди месеци поаднах на материал за индийските и пакистански асове и там пакистанците имаха повече пилоти с много победи, а имаше само 3-5 споменати индийски имена и то с два пъти по малко победи

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Albireo

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МнениеПуснато на: Пет 17 Сеп 2004, 20:54    Заглавие:  

Така, намерих го! Учението се е казвало Shahbaz 78. http://www.pakistanidefenceforum.com/index.php?showtopic=34414
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Fox Mulder


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МнениеПуснато на: Съб 18 Сеп 2004, 03:27    Заглавие:  

Както вече казах не подценявайте пакистанците.
Вижте двете сериозни войни между Индия и Пакистан.
Тази през 1965 г. и тази през 1971 г. и тогава индийците уж повечет техника имат, по-добре, ала-бала. Обаче накрая излиза, че пакистанците се представят твърде добре за ситуацията в която са изпаднали.
Личното ми мнение, че пакистанците са по-добри като пилоти, техници, командващи офицери и така нататк.

Вярно индийците и учението с USAF. Да, но мога да се хвана на бас, че това са били някакви индийски "асове". Смятам, че редовия пакистански пилот е по-добър от редовия му индийски колега.

Иначе ето какво приблизително имат пакистанците като ВВС:
32 броя F-16A/B block 15
oколо 150 F-7P/MР и FT-7
около 50 F-7PG
около 200 Mirage III/5 тия тук са жестока каша от разни варианти, купоувани, доставяни втора ръка и какво ли още не. Ако не ме домързи утре може да ги представя като варианти.

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МнениеПуснато на: Съб 18 Сеп 2004, 10:14    Заглавие:  

Както Фокс каза - пакистанците са по-старателни.
Просто тук е в сила принципа от Съветско-финландската война - едната страна с огромни ресурси залага на количеството, другата с по-скромни - на качеството на подготовка на състава, защото друго няма. Кое ще излезе по-добро - войната ще покаже в най-пълна степен.
Но това си има донякъде и расовото обяснение.
Колегата Иван, дето е обиколил света и Индия в частност твърди, че северната част на Индия и Пакистан хората са много по-качествени от тези в южаната част на Индия и Шри ланка например - и като външен вид, начин на живот и интелект.
Иначе за подготовката и поддръжката - пакистанците са "германците" на ислямско-азиатския свят, които произвеждат почти два пъти повече пилоти отколкото им трябват и пращат голямо количество инструктори в приятелски държави - от Либия до ОАЕ. Например в оговора за доставка на F-16E /известен преди като Блок 60/ има изрично изискване да не летят на тях пакистански пилоти, служещи като инструктори във ВВС на ОАЕ.
Косвен белег за по-добрите стандарти на подготовка /летателна и инжженерно-техническа/ е и по-ниската аварийност в Пакистан - при експлоатация на самолети от старо поколение.
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Елемаг
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МнениеПуснато на: Съб 18 Сеп 2004, 23:41    Заглавие:  

Cool Cool Cool
Ето тук има малко за бойното използване на индийските Су-7:
http://airbase.ru/hangar/russia/soukhoi/su/7/indo-pac.htm

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МнениеПуснато на: Чет 23 Сеп 2004, 01:51    Заглавие:  

Да продължа идейната линия на Елемаг с материали за миналите пакистано-индйски войни:

http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/f104pac/f104pac.html
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/su7/su7.html
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/kashmir3/kashmir3.html
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/asia/f6/f6.html
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_325.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_331.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_327.shtml
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_324.shtml

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Super Flanker
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МнениеПуснато на: Чет 30 Сеп 2004, 15:51    Заглавие:  

Abe pakistancite naistina sa po-dobri,ama Su-30K/MKI;MiG-21UPG;MiG-29;Mirage-2000 mi izglejdat nepreodolimi v momenta za tyh.
Oshte poveche,che vsichki znaem oshte kolko Su-30MKI i MiG-29K shte poluchi Indiy.
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Елемаг
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МнениеПуснато на: Чет 30 Сеп 2004, 18:39    Заглавие:  

Cool Cool Cool
Пакистан побеждава само в първата война. Всички следващи победи са за Индия.

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Han Solo
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МнениеПуснато на: Чет 30 Сеп 2004, 19:17    Заглавие:  

Елемаг написа:
Cool Cool Cool
Пакистан побеждава само в първата война. Всички следващи победи са за Индия.

Елемаг там е трудно да се каже че някой е победил, нали виждаш че там още току гърмят взривове и гинат по много хора

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onufrii


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МнениеПуснато на: Вто 05 Окт 2004, 18:35    Заглавие:  

Тая тема вече май я бяхме разисквали, и колкото и да са добри пакистанските пилоти на Су-30МКИ с Mirage III не се излиза. И е по-добре да говорим по въпроса за настоящото състояние на нещата 8това май е темата/, а не да се задълбаваме в миналото, защото надали има човек който да се съмнява в качествата на пакистанските летци.
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Отказах се да ставам космонавт - вече видях земята през предното стъкло!

Si vis pacem, para bellum - 26030

Прайм червени шишета на бели!
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Albireo

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МнениеПуснато на: Нед 10 Окт 2004, 18:15    Заглавие:  

И като говорим за сегашното състояние на нещата....един интересен анализ:
Pakistan Moves To New Era Of Defense Expansion

Defense & Foreign Affairs Daily, October 7, 2004

Analysis. From GIS (Global Information System) Station Islamabad, and other sources.

The new round of US defense systems sales to Pakistan is likely to be substantially larger than most South Asian sources had expected. It will be staggered through a series of procurements. Significantly, Pakistan has never been in better shape, financially, to afford this round of defense technology growth, given a substantial rise in the past year of the country’s foreign reserves from its traditional average of around $4-billion to the present appr. $14-billion.

Some of the new Pakistan defense sales have already been sent to the US Congress for consideration, which will occur following the November 2, 2004, US elections (ie: in the first 2005 Congressional session). Others will be sent to Congress after the elections, and a change in either the US Administration (ie: if contender Sen. John Kerry was to win), or in the balance in Congress (if the Democrats were to win a majority in the House of Representatives and/or Senate) could shake the smooth passage of the Pakistani sales.

It should be assumed that the Indian political lobby in Washington would attempt to curb the scale and pace of the proposed Pakistan defense acquisitions.

Pakistan’s defense growth, however, is not limited to acquisitions from the US. It has made major acquisitions from Russia in the past year, with more planned, and is progressing strongly with domestic defense production of increasingly higher-quality systems.

Earlier reports had indicated that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) would obtain 18 “advanced model” Lockheed Martin F-16C/D fighters, and it was assumed that Pakistan would push for Block 60+ variants of the type. Indian sources were known to be opposing the sale of such an advanced variant of the fighter, but not only is it virtually assured that the PAF variant will be the latest version of the Block 60, but there has been an indication that the US will, in fact, sell Raytheon AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) to accompany the aircraft. The Pakistan Government essentially told the US that the F-16s needed an over-the-horizon (OTH) AAM to balance the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) capability in this regard.

Pakistani officials do not anticipate a failure of the US to provide AMRAAM, but there were indications that, regardless of the US position, the PAF was pursuing an OTH option for the fighter. In 2004, the PAF had already selected the Chinese medium-range SD-10 Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile for the new JF-17, due to come into service in mid-2006.

But more significantly, PAF sources confirmed that the first tranche of 18 new F-16C/Ds was intended only to be followed by a series of further orders for an additional 60 F-16C/D Block 60 fighters. This would represent a significant upgrade of PAF capabilities vis-à-vis the IAF. Despite the fact that even the latest model F-16 lacks the air combat maneuverability of the new generation of Indian Air Force and Indian Navy fighters * some of the latest MiG-29 and Su-30MKI variants * the addition of an eventual 78 F-16C/D Block 60 fighters with beyond visual range defensive capabilities would significantly even the Indo-Pakistani aerial battlefield.

But, in addition to the F-16 acquisition program, the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra, not far from Islamabad, is now gearing up for the production of JF-17 fighters [see weapons record, below]. The Chinese-Pakistani fighter, the JF-17 Thunder, earlier referred to as the Super-7. The JF-17, produced in the PRC by Chengdu Aircraft Industry Company (CAC) and in Pakistan at PAC Kamra, had its maiden flight in the PRC at the beginning of September 2003. The JF-17 is intended to replace the aging PAF fleet of AMD and CAC Mirages, F-7s and A-5s when it enters service in mid-2006. The F-7P and F-7MP Airguard are versions of the Chinese MiG-21 derivative built for Pakistan. The PAF versions differ from the F-7M in having a Martin-Baker 10L ejection seat and four (instead of two) missile stations under the wings. In addition, the F-7MP is fitted with Collins avionics (including VOR/ILS receiver, ADF, and digital DME). Aircraft of both versions are being retrofitted with FIAR Grifo 7 multimode radar.

The Indian Air Force, too, intends to replace its remaining MiG-21s with its domestically-built Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is likely to enter squadron service at around the same time as the PAF JF-17s. Significantly, the JF-17 seems likely to be a fair match for the LCA’s performance, and * assuming Kamra can resolve the issue of avionics and control systems * it will be fielded in strategically significant numbers.

At the same time, although India’s massive economic advantage over Pakistan ensures that its defense programs significantly outstrips its major historic rival, Pakistan’s recent and new defense acquisition programs mean that neither India, nor anyone else in the region, can assume that the old Indo-Pakistan military equation is no longer significant, quite apart from the asymmetric nuclear equation between the two states. [India’s nuclear strategy with regard to Pakistan is essentially counter-city, whereas, to be effective, Pakistan’s nuclear strategy toward India must be counter-force.]

The Pakistan Armed Forces have, in the past two years, more than doubled their commitment to helicopter operations, largely as a result of the close experience which Pakistan has gained in operations with United States forces in the war against the Taliban and al-Qaida forces since September 11, 2001. More importantly, the new type of conflict which the Pakistani forces are facing against insurgents means that traditional, large formation approaches to warfare are no longer viable. Helicopters, with the ability to move small, light troop units at short notice, are now critical to Pakistan’s new operational doctrine.

This doctrine is being forged, particularly, by the ongoing intense warfare underway for much of the past year against al-Qaida and related groups in North and South Waziristan in the Pakistan Tribal Areas. Apart from the doctrinal changes in the Armed Forces as a result of this fighting, the intervention by the Government of Pakistan into the formerly autonomous Tribal Areas has, for the first time in the country’s independent history, broken the isolation of the Tribal Areas, into which no Government forces could hitherto move. This new reality will not be reversed: the Government will never allow the Tribal Areas to return to their former status as secure, safe-havens for smugglers, warlords and criminals.

The fighting in Waziristan has been of an intensity and scale which had not been anticipated, and it has been as a result of this fighting that many al-Qaida members, who had been hiding there, have now fled to Pakistani urban areas, hoping to find a new safe haven in the sea of populations such as Karachi or Rawalpindi. The fact that the Waziristan havens have been assaulted accounts for the ferocity with which al-Qaida-related terrorists have escalated their own campaign against the Government of Pres. Pervez Musharraf.

The Pakistan Army Aviation Wing had, until about 2002 relied heavily on a small and fairly outdated fleet of helicopters. Its teeth had been provided by 20 Bell AH-1F Cobra gunships.

[The AH-1F Cobra was the final single-engine version built by Bell for the US Army and export customers. The AH-1F designation was given to new-built airframes and to upgraded AH-1G and AH-1P airframes differing from AH-1Es in having (1) an air data sensor probe attached to the cockpit frame on the right side of the forward fuselage, (2) a nose-mounted laser range finder and laser spot tracker forward of the main rotor head fairing, (3) a head-up display, (4) an AN/ASN-128 Doppler navigation system, (5) an AN/ALQ-144 IR jammer atop the fuselage aft of the main rotor, (6) a single-point refueling system, (7) an improved IR-suppressor in a new exhaust nozzle incorporating an air mixer plug, and (Cool new secure voice communications sets.]

The Aviation Wing has already added another 20 AH-1Fs to its force, plus an additional 40 second-hand AH-1s, for spare parts inventory. An additional 30 * over and above the 20 plus 40 batches already delivered * are to come from the US in the near future. As well, the Pakistan Army has now been cleared by the US to acquire 20 of the latest version of the AH-1, the AH-1W SuperCobra, a twin-engine advanced variant with significant day/night and bad weather performance with a heavier weapons load. The Pakistan Army has requested that the US also provide Hellfire air-to-surface missiles to go on the AH-1Ws.

In addition to these combat helicopters, the Army Aviation Wing has already acquired, in the past year or so, an additional 26 Bell 412 Twin Huey utility helicopters. It is scheduled to get an additional 20 Twin Hueys.

The Army Aviation Wing has also had two deliveries of Russian Mi-17s since the beginning of 2003, the first of 16 aircraft, and the second of 12 aircraft. Both Mi-17 production lines in Russia were involved in fulfilling the orders, and now Russia is in the process of clearing the sale of Mi-35 advanced combat helicopters to Pakistan. It is significant that India has not pressured, or been able to successfully pressure, Russia into refusing to sell the systems to Pakistan.

India’s strong economic and strategic relationship with Russia did enable New Delhi to ensure that Russia refused to supply Pakistan ammunition for its Ukrainian-built T-80UD main battle tanks which relied on special Russian ammunition. That, for some years, meant that the advanced armor in the Pakistani inventory was essentially useless operationally. Pakistan was able to eventually resolve that issue, however, and now obtains the ammunition for the T-80UD from the PRC.

In addition to the F-16s and helicopters, Pakistan’s request to buy 75 United Defense M-109A6 155m self-propelled howitzers is significant. The US Defense establishment has essentially agreed to the sale; it has forwarded the request to Congress for approval. The Pakistan Army has, for many years, had M-106A2 SP howitzers in its inventory, but the A6 variant is the latest and most effective, and it took considerable work for Pakistan to win US approval for the transfer.

Pakistan’s request for an additional six Lockheed P-3C Update II.5 Orion ASW and maritime patrol aircraft is also now before Congress, and would significantly expand the maritime patrol capability which the Pakistan Navy now has over the Arabian Sea with its initial batch of three P-3Cs. Spares for the existing P-3Cs are also sought.

As well, the Pakistan Navy has requested the purchase of three retiring US Navy combatant ships, almost certain to be FFG-7s. The Pakistan Navy has, however, been acquiring ships elsewhere: it has a frigate under build in China; it recently acquired a new Turkish patrol boat for the Special Services Group (SSG: special forces); and in September 2004, Karachi Shipyard launched a new Thai-designed aluminum fast missile boat which will be delivered to the Navy.

Pakistan’s domestic defense industry has played an increasingly important rôle, and now is a significant exporter. On September 16, 2004, Maj.-Gen. Syed Ali Hamid, Director-General of the Defence Export Promotion Organisation (DEPO) said in Karachi that for the past two to three years Pakistan had a sustained export of $100-million per year of armaments, rising from an earlier average of $40-million per annum.

Pakistan, despite its strong moves to get new F-16s and JF-17s into service, has not abandoned its traditional approach to acquiring used AMD Mirage fighter aircraft for spares or to refurbish into combat-ready systems. On July 05, 2004, for example, Pakistan bought the Libyan Air Force fleet of Mirage 5 fighters and spare parts. the Libyan fleet had been grounded for more than a decade. Pakistani sources said that the purchase included 50 aircraft and 150 engines. All the aircraft would be scrapped for spare parts to maintain Pakistan’s existing fleet of Mirages.

Apart from its fleet of Mirage F-1 fighters, which were of no interest to the PAF, the Libyan Air Force originally had a fleet of 35 Dassault Mirage 5D tactical fighter; appr. five Dassault Mirage 5DD operational trainers, and some 25 Mirage 5DE tactical fighters; plus some five Dassault Mirage 5DR tactical reconnaissance. It is understood that this fleet of some 70 aircraft had now reduced to the 50 aircraft and additional scraps and spares acquired by the PAF to rework at Kamra.

The PAF currently operates 180 Mirage III and V jets, although the PAF will only admit that the number is “more than 100”. The Mirages are used by the PAF in, among other missions, an anti-ship rôle armed with Exocet anti-ship missiles.

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МнениеПуснато на: Сря 21 Сеп 2011, 20:17    Заглавие:  

Arrow Исламабад и Вашингтон подписаха споразумение за количеството на войските в Пакистан
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конструктор
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МнениеПуснато на: Пет 10 Юли 2015, 14:44    Заглавие:  

Индия и Пакистан влизат в ШОС

Така в ШОС ядрените държави стават 4 (в НАТО са 3).

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